NEWLEGACY.FR

THE CHANGELOG

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- GUILE -

Guile on SRK Wiki (ST)

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GOAL OF THE CHANGES

Guile is one of these characters that is okay for the most part. Yeah, he has some very advantageous match-ups (as well as one very disadvantageous), but I really think it's not really fault of Guile's design, it's for the most part a problem on the other characters. The main target of the Guile changes will be in having more fair match-ups. He will be receiving a good number of small changes to help him vs Dhalsim.

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Old

To select O.Guile, choose any color and then press :

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MISC

Throws:

o Behavior tweak: ground throws can't be activated with up anymore.

REASON: I think this is a bug.

o Behavior tweak: aerial throws can't be activated with down anymore(diagonals still work).

REASON: I think this is a bug.

GROUND NORMALS

Close Standing Strong:

+ Priority buff: hitbox moved 6px downwards.

REASON: So now it can hit more crouchers. The way it is now it still whiffs against Cammy and Blanka, unlike the far version, who can hit Cammy but whiffs against Blanka only. Whiffing against Cammy is intended, I sort of felt bad in making it better against her, since that's already a bad match-up for Cammy, not that this alone would make much difference though.

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ST NL
Far Standing Fierce:

+ Dizzy/dizzy timer buff: from 1~7 to 10~16, timer increased from 70 to 80.

REASON: I believe CAPCOM gave a low dizzy to this new move simply because they didn't had enough time to test it. IMO it's totally OK for this to do a normal high dizzy like other Heavy normals.

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1~7(70) ➔ 10~16(80)
Crouching Forward:

- Priority nerf: body hurtbox during the recovery frames expanded 26px forward and 1px upwards.

REASON: Zangief's Standing Forward beat it in range by 16px. Keep in mind that due to a change of 1px on Zangief's Standing Forward, the exchange with Guile's Crouching Strong doesn't result in a trade anymore (Guile wins it now), so if Zangief starts to spam his Standing Forward, Guile can counter it easily. On the other hand, if Guile gets too spammy with his Crouching Strong, Zangief can counter it easily with his sweep. This (as well the new Jab Green Hand and the Kick lariat change) helps Zangief a lot on the neutral game on this heavy unfavorable match-up IMO.
IMPACTS: about Ground Normals, there is only 2 really meaningful differences (other than vs Zangief): Ken's Standing Rh can now hit it from starting round distance, as long it's done on reaction. This is actually a welcome change on the Ken vs Guile match-up. Also, Fei's Overhead can now be used as a counter to it. Other than that, Chun's Crouching Fierce can beat Guile's Crouching Forward now, but her Sweep already could beat it cleanly anyway so this makes no difference.
On Ground Specials, Fei's Short Flame Kick can beat it now from a little closer, but he has to be very close to it, way closer than he needs to be for a Fierce Rekka to hit, plus he has a very narrow window of time to do it so I don't think this will come into play very often. O.T.Hawk's DP's, Blanka's Horizontal Roll and Honda's Headbutt can hit it too, but at that situation they all would end up hitting anyway. DeeJay's Short Sobat will be able to hit it from a little farther now too but it's also not that good. And Boxer's TAPs would hit it too, but I compensated that on Boxers side, since that thing brought any bad impact. Then there's the projectiles that can hit it (all but Max Outs and (obviously) High Tigers), but actually this will be a buff when trading with projectiles because the "trade" happens sooner so guile would be at less frame disadvantage.
The only exception is Ryu's Red Hadoukens, because of range dependent knockdown. This is indeed a problem but only vs Fierce ones: theres some specific situations in which guile would not be KD'd in unmodified ST. If that happens, it will always be a trade though so it's not that bad. My hope is that Guile's small buffs will compensate it.
At first this nerf was on the active part, but I noticed that this made it a worse anti air normal. For example, Shotos Jumping Rh were able to beat this move from a range in which it clearly shouldn't. This forced me to move the nerf to the recovery instead, so the anti air usage is unaffected.

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Close/Far Standing Rh:

+ Behavior tweak: Close Standing Rh now has no range restriction, Far Standing Rh is now a command normal that is activated with ← + Rh from any range.

REASON: this works as slightly buff for the Donkey Kick I guess, since you can now activate it from up close too. But, the main purpose for this change is for Close Standing Rh to be usable from any range. This move is a little better than Guile's other moves as a reaction to Dhalsim's Drills and can also work well as a counter to N.Blanka's tweaked Backstep Roll (it knocks down on hit now), Guile can't use Crouching Fierce as a trade, but this kick works pretty well at countering it. Don't be deceived by it though, it won't be an revolutionary anti air for 2 reasons: you have to give up charge to use it (so no Sonic Boom right after it), and it can't be compared with CPS1 Guile Standing RH because here the move have way less horizontal range. Because of that, Zangief can do a Diagonal Jumping Rh whiff and grab Guile out of this move; Zangief couldn't do that on previous Guile's versions. I'll also do some priority adjustments on it to make sure it's balanced. If this proves to be too good I'll revert it. I doubt that will be the case, though.

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Close HK Far HK
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72- ➔ ∞ 73+ ➔ ∞
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Close Standing Rh:

- Priority nerf: head hurtbox during the last startup frame expanded 26px forward.

REASON: this is just to keep the move in check, now that it can be done from far away. Without this nerf I think this has the potential of being too good vs Zangief. Dunno if this move will ever have a use, even now that it can be used on any range, but i'd rather have it like that than it making the Zangief match-up even easier.

- Prority nerf: head hurtbox during the 1st active part increased vertically by 2px.

REASON: a little harder to get trades with Ken's Diagonal Jumping Fierce, Zangief's Diagonal Jumping Short/Forward, Fei's Diagonal Jumping Forward and DeeJay's Diagonal Jumping Rh.

- Priority nerf: head hurtbox during the 2nd active part like the one on the 1st active part.

REASON: otherwise it could have amazing priority if done soon. Maybe this isn't that needed, but I'll change this anyway, just to play safe.

+ Dizzy/dizzy timer buff: from 1~7 to 10~16, timer increased from 70 to 80.

REASON: I believe CAPCOM gave a low dizzy to this new move simply because they didn't had enough time to test it. IMO it's totally OK for this to do a normal high dizzy like other Heavy normals.

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1~7(70) ➔ 10~16(80)
Far Standing Rh:

+ Priority buff/nerf: hitbox expanded 5px upwards, but reduced 1px downwards.

REASON: the upwards buff is for it to be able to hit Dhalsim's Standing Kicks. I know this won't be revolutionary on this match-up, but since it brings very little impacts on other match-ups, it felt to me that it was okay to bring this buff on this much needed match-up. The only other poke-like moves affected by this change are: Chun's Far Rh last startup head hurtbox, Claw's Far Forward, N.Sagat's Far Forward 2nd hit (will trade instead of losing). As for the downwards nerf, it's for it to whiff vs Zangief's leg hurtbox on his 3P lariat.

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AERIAL NORMALS

Neutral Jumping Jab:

+ Priority buff: hitbox like Neutral Jumping Strong was.

REASON: because Neutral Jumping Strong will be changed to a 'chop' like the diagonal jumping version, the gap in priority between jab and fierce would result in jab almost having no use.

- Framedata nerf: stays active for 24f only (instead of the whole jump), like the diagonal jumping version.

REASON: compensation for the buff above.

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7/∞
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7/24/∞
Diagonal Jumping Jab:

+ Priority buff: hitbox expanded 2px vertically.

REASON: so now it can always get a trade with Dhalsim's Close Standing Short. If spaced correctly it can also beat his Close Standing Jab and Strong and will now also always beats his Close Standing Forward (before it was a trade). Finally, it can beat his slides too now, but that's also due to the nerf Dhalsim received on them. Won't be revolutionary since Guile will be vulnerable up on landing (its a Jab normal so it will only do light block-stun so he can get thrown), but it's possible to space it out so that doesn't happen. By the way, this is the maximum possible buff that I can give for this move so it can still be beaten by Chun's Far Standing Forward as well as always trade with Dictators Crouching Fierce.

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Neutral Jumping Strong:

+ Behavior/Priority tweak: now animates as a 'chop', like the diagonal jumping version. The horizontal priority will be like diagonal strong and the vertical priority will be like diagonal fierce.

REASON: mainly because Neutral Jumping Fierce outclassed the other neutral jumping punches, so Neutral Jumping Strong had basically no use. Now each have a distinct use. This specifically shines vs Claw's dive. It still gets beat by Blanka's Diagonal Jumping Jab (good) or Shoto's Diagonal Jumping Strong/Fierce (good) but trades with T.Hawk's Diagonal Jumping Jab (unfortunately), but Guile need to be really ballsy to use it like that. If any situation in which this move ends up being too good is found, please report to me and I will undo/adjust this immediately.

- Framedata nerf: stays active for only 16f, was 20f.

REASON: just to make it a little harder to use. Compensates the change above.

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7/20/∞
Neutral Jumping Short:

+ Priority buff: hurtboxes and hitboxes tweaked, now it has around the horizontal priority that Neutral Fierce have, but the hitbox is reduced a lot downwards (better horizontal priority, but the hitbox is positioned very high, so it's basically useless vs opponents on the ground, it even whiffs completely vs Crouching opponents). Hurt-boxes also reworked so he isn't vulnerable around his legs.

REASON: I know this is an unneeded change for the most part, but this move was so trash before that I felt like it deserved a few adjustments. It may be used vs Akuma's Air Hadoukens and may also be useful vs Claw's Dives, but other than that this move will probably still be useless. If any situation in which this move ends up being too good is find, please report to me and I will undo/adjust this immediately.

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Neutral Jumping Forward:

+ Priority buff: hurtboxes during the first 3f of startup as well as during a portion of the recovery are now like the ones during the rest of the inactive part of the move.

REASON: it looked so weird to have these hurtboxes there. This move isn't even that good, I don't think it makes sense for it to have such big hurtboxes. In case I am wrong, please report to me any OP cases that this move may be used now and I will revert it ASAP.

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COMMAND NORMALS

Knee Bazooka:

o Behavior tweak: can't be activated with upwards anymore(diagonals still work).

REASON: I think this is a bug.

Sobats:

o Behavior tweak: can't be activated with upwards anymore(diagonals still work).

REASON: I think this is a bug.

- Priority nerf: last startup animation hurtbox expanded 6px downwards.

REASON: so Zangief's sweep can hit it at that brief moment as well, giving him better chances of hitting a retreating Guile. Only 1 other low move is also affected by it and that's Honda's command sweep which is OK for balance too. Don't worry, the move still performs the same vs other lows (Dhalsim's included) as well as vs Low Tigers. That's why this change is fine: it has obvious balance benefits (even thought it will hardly help) without a single balance loss.

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Reverse Spin Kick:

+ Behavior tweak: activation range removed.

REASON: Needed for it to be used effectively as a overhead (see changes below).

+ Behavior tweak: activated only → + Rh only.

REASON: Otherwise Guile wouldn't be able to move forward with the donkey kick while keeping boom charge, since the range restriction was removed.

- Startup nerf: 5f slower, like in HDR.

REASON: it compensates for its overhead properties.

+ Behavior buff: now functions as an overhead, like in HDR.

REASON: is the reason for all the other changes on this move.. It makes Guile a little more interesting, without making him too good. Maybe it could be argued that Guile doesn't really need it, and for the most part that's true, but the Dhalsim match-up is trash and one of the reason for that is the fact that Guile has no decent options when up close, and having an overhead fixes that problem.

- Priority nerf: proper hurtboxes during the startup frames, last_start/active/1s_recovery are now vulnerable to low moves, like in HDR.

REASON: it compensates for it being activated from any range. There's 2 (intentional) differences from HDR: the head hurtbox during active was adjusted by 3px so it can beat Claw's slide cleanly and the body hurtbox during active was moved 1px downwards so it can be beat by Blanka's Crouching Strong.

+ Priority buff: hitbox moved 2px downwards.

REASON: so it can be used against a crouching Blanka. At first I left it like it was on HDR on purpose because I thought this could be seen as an unnecessary buff vs Blanka, since he loses the Guile match on ST. But considering all the buffs Blanka received plus the fact that he now also got an Overhead that can be used normally on Guile then maybe it's OK for Guile to be able to have it too vs Blanka.

- Damage nerf: from 26 to 24.

REASON: this move got a lot better since it's now an overhead. This decrease in damage is just to keep it in check, now it does the same damage as Ken's and Blanka's overheads.

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ST NL
ST
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20/6/16
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26 ➔ 24

SUPER / SPECIAL MOVES

All Specials/Super:

o Behavior tweak: Input window is no longer random and is fixed at the minimum value.

REASON: The input window on all special moves is now fixed to the minimum value of 7f instead of being random at 7~14f. Having random input timers makes no sense.

Sonic Boom:

o Bug fix: recovery amount is now set properly (value was being set based on the strength of the last normal used, instead of the button used for the special move).

REASON: Bug fixing. The bug is present on the code but it has no effect since all strengths are set to have the same recovery. I'll fix it anyway.

- Behavior nerf: super meter given decreased from 7 to 4 points.

REASON: it was OK in ST for him to get meter very fast since his super was garbage, but now that his super is decent, he getting so much meter was too good.

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7 ➔ 4
Somersault Kick:

+ Behavior buff: Forward version has horizontal movement increased to be in between Short(unchanged) and Rh(with my change, see below).

REASON: To "blend" better between versions.

+ Behavior buff: Rh version horizontal movement increased.

REASON: To give a use to the Rh flash kick. Inspired by HDR Guile, though the change here is not as dramatic as in HDR. By far the most experimental change on Guile, needs testing, it may change a match-up or two but from my testings I think that won't be a problem.

+ Priority buff: Forward version 2nd active frame's leg hurtbox reduced 12px downwards.

REASON: so it can pass through Yoga Fires (as well as Sonic Booms - unavoidable consequence).

- Priority tweak: Rh version 2nd active frame's leg hurtbox expanded backwards by 24px but reduced 12px downwards.

REASON: the horizontal priority change is for it to not work any better as a cross-up avoidance tool (that's definitely not the purpose of the acceleration buff). The vertical priority change is for it to pass through Yoga Fires (as well as Sonic Booms - unavoidable consequence).

- Damage nerf: Forward version damage decreased from 32/22 to 32/20.

REASON: To compensate a little for the horizontal movement buff as well as to "blend" better between versions.

- Damage nerf: Rh version damage decreased from 32/22 to 32/18.

REASON: To compensate a little for the horizontal movement buff. Just like it makes sense for N.Ken's Fierce Shoryu to do very low damage on the 3rd hit since it has very good aerial range. Since this is somewhat now the case on Rh Flash kick, a similar nerf is needed. The nerf isn't as big as on N.Ken's Shoryukens though, simply because the added range on the Rh Flash Kick isn't really that big (Guile spends most of the time on the air recovering from the move).

+ Random damage fix: Rh version "flashing" active part now uses the proper random damage table, like the other active parts.

REASON: It's strange that all active parts of the Rh Flash kick does more damage than the Forward Flash kick minus for this one. I believe this is a minor mistake from CAPCOM.

- Behavior nerf/Priority buff: The falling part of the recovery now doesn't has a hurtbox around Guile's feet anymore.

REASON: This may sound like a Buff but it's actually a Nerf: now if the opponent decides to punish it with a sweep, timing it too soon will not cause an aerial reset instead of a sweep knockdown.

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Super:

+ Behavior tweak: leniency time for the super is long like Claw's super.

REASON: this won't realistically allow him to walk forward before doing the super (i mean, it's possible, but who will use it effectively?) but it will at least be the same as Claw's. Yes, I am changing this just for the sake of consistency. It will make doing his super slightly easier, even though that's not the intention (Guile's super is slightly harder to do than Claw's, even thought both are easy).

+ Behavior buff: better horizontal movement, 1st flash kick now moves 50% faster, 2nd flash kick moves 100% faster.

REASON: Combos better, passes through fireballs better, punishes stuff better. Now Guile's super is decent (if not good)!

- Startup nerf: 2f slower.

REASON: so it can't be used as a punish vs Boxer's Super (since the recovery on it was nerfed). Guile still can punish it with a Flash Kick though, and that's more than enough. Being able to punish it with his super was too good, Boxer only had a small advantage vs Guile on ST, and he received many small nerfs already. I know this makes Guile's super even easier to be safe jumped now, but this wasn't Guile's fastest reversal move anyway (it always was the flash kick). Nerfing Boxer Super 2f less wouldn't do it since Fei must be able to punish it with a Flame Kick (which also has a startup of 6f).

- Priority nerf: 'Short flash kick' hurtboxes during the 2nd flash kick, but with no head hurtbox during 2nd and 3rd vulnerable frames.

REASON: Since it now covers a lot more ground, I'm removing half of the invulnerability. The head hurtboxes change is so it can still pass through Yoga Fires. All in all the super is a straight upgrade anyway (frame data suggests that it should use Rh hurtboxes, but then it wouldn't be possible to pass through Yoga Fires on certain occasions...). It can also pass through Sonic Booms (mirror match changes are ok), but the other projectiles will hit Guile. I don't really think Guile needs buffs on the other projectile match-ups.

+ Framedata buff: uses frame data like the Short Flash kick, instead of Rh.

REASON: Looking at the flash kick frame data, the differentiation between versions are on the first active frame (with 100% invulnerability) and the last one (after the "flash" kick), with short having more frames on the first, and less on the last, Rh version being the opposite of Short and Forward being in between Short and Rh. With that in mind, the change here is about using the frame data of Short Flash kick instead of Rh so it will have 2f of additional invulnerability, which helps in passing through fireballs on the second Flash kick, since it now isn't invulnerable during it anymore.

- Behavior nerf/Priority buff: The falling part of the recovery now doesn't has a hurtbox around Guile's feet anymore.

REASON: This may sound like a Buff but it's actually a Nerf: now if the opponent decides to punish it with a sweep, timing it too soon will not cause an aerial reset instead of a sweep knockdown.

+ Recovery buff: grounded recovery reduced to only 2f.

REASON: Guile was too helpless when the super whiffed. Now there will be way less time to punish Guile with a ground combo or a throw now, like when Ken whiffs his super.

o Cosmetic fix: proper landing sprite between the flash kicks.

REASON: It looks cooler this way. This obviously doesn't affect gameplay.

+ Behavior fix: hit order corrected.

REASON: so it combos properly. Example scenario: Punishing Ryu's Hadouken from mid screen. Guile would score only the 4th hit which doesn't knock down, leaving Guile completely helpless. Now the 6th kick will hit too and will and knockdown Ryu on that scenario.

+ Behavior buff: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th hits now do Medium BLOCK stun/push-back.

REASON: will get all 6 hits of chip damage if the 1st one hits. Guile's super is kinda bad so I think this is fair. No reason for Boxer's or Ryu's etc to be so easy to be used as a chip killer but not Guile's.

+ Behavior buff: push-back on hit during the 2nd and 3rd hits are now negated.

REASON: so the non-juggle hits can combo better now in case they hit the opponent from far away.

+ Behavior/priority buff: 3rd hit now animates like the last hit (has the "flashing" hit, hitbox size also changed).

REASON: just so his super can have a little more reach. Note that this also doubles as a nerf since it wont be as good as an anti cross-up tool anymore. So, as a defensive tool it's worse, but as an offensive tool it's better.

+ Damage buff: from 16*6 to 12+12+14+12+16+22.

REASON: Guile's super is considerably better now, so I am reducing the damage on it a little. But I also increased the damage on the last hits though so it will do more damage when used to pass through Yoga Fires for example.

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16x6 ➔ 12+12+14+12+16+22

GUILE'S BAD MATCHUPS THAT NEEDED FIXING (and how I did it):

Dhalsim:

It's unsafe for Dhalsim to punish booms with crouching punches now. This alone turns the 2-8 into a 3-7 I guess. The new super range is better to punish bad Yoga Fires now, which also setups a cross up attempt which is also nice. Dhalsim's Close Crouching Jab is now a little vulnerable to Guile's Crouching Forward. Also, Sonic booms hit his standing kicks better now and his new Forward and Rh Flash kicks can pass through Yoga Fires and have additional range. His Diagonal Jumping Jab was buffed slightly so it can at least always trade with Dhalsim's Close Standing Short and will beat his Close Standing Jab as well as his slide. Guile's donkey kick can now hit Dhalsim's Standing Kicks reliably from the right range. Finally, Guile's new Overhead now at least gives Guile some sort of mix-up when up close. Match-up still in favor of Dhalsim I guess, but it's definitely much more honest now.

Claw:

The main difference really is that claw's slide recovery was nerfed so it's not as abusable as it was. Also, the new Rh flash kick can be a little better at beating dives IF well timed (big IF there), depending on the spacing. Another difference is that the new overhead also beats his slide cleanly, but is not really practical at that. The new Neutral Jumping Short and Strong can be used to neutralize Dives without giving up ground now. I think these changes makes the match-up OK, mainly because of the slide nerf, it's probably still on Claws advantage though.