NEWLEGACY.FR

THE CHANGELOG

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- O.HONDA -

O.Honda on SRK Wiki (ST)

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Honda on SRK Wiki (HF)

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GOAL OF THE CHANGES

Make him be more like HF Honda, but still keep his ST O.Honda characteristics. SSF2 Honda already resembles HF Honda quite well though (similar ground normal set, steerable HHS, etc) though I will be giving him back some of the stuff that got changed on SSF2 like his Headbutt and his Butt Drop. The Jab Headbutt 1st active part will not lose its knockdown ability though (like it is in HF), and the HF Buttdrop will receive additional changes to make it usable, because the HF version is very bad overall. I will not give him HF Honda's Diagonal Jumping Jab and Strong though since these are just like the Neutral version and are also straight up worse. I'll keep SSF2's new Diagonal Jumping Forward too, since that's an important tool to get in. Finally, HF Honda does considerably less damage on most normal moves and special moves (HHS is an exception though) and also has worse frame data on some normals(Close Standing Short, Neutral and Diagonal Jumping Jabs), but I'll not replicate these for now since O.Honda isn't exactly a top tier, but if it happens that O.Honda is too good, then I will. He isn't exactly much better than ST O.Honda though so I really doubt that will be necessary.

As for his special cancel window, CE/HF Honda has a special cancel window of 4f, so he can't special cancel a single normal. On SSF2 and on ST's N.Honda, the window is 4f, so you can now cancel the low hitting Short kick (and that's it). ST's O.Honda special cancel is 6f (huge!), so he can cancel a good variety of normals. For this hack I will be keeping the special cancel from O.Honda since that really made O.Honda a very unique Honda iteration. Giving the rebelanced O.Honda his special cancel window from HF is out of question since he needs to be able to cancel Standing Jab into HHS, making it like it was in SSF2 will do no good too since it will be just like N.Honda so there would be less variety. I guess I could nerf it 1f only so it's in between ST's Old and New Honda, but the only difference that would do is that Crouching Fierce wouldn't be cancelable anymore, and that's a important normal for O.Honda so in the end I opted to just keep it as is.

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Old

To select O.Honda, choose any color and then press :

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MISC

Neutral stance:

- Priority nerf: leg hurtbox used on neutral ground stance plus all standing normals expanded 2px upwards.

REASON: Now Fei's 2nd and 3rd Rekka hits will not whiff against it so he can combo Rekkas on Honda from a decent range.

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ST NL
Crouching reel:

- Priority nerf: body hurtbox used on crouching reel 1st part expanded 19px forward.

REASON: So Dictator can combo properly when E.Honda gets hit from a corner pass combo from a crouching position.

Throws:

o Behavior tweak: can't be activated with up anymore(diagonals still work).

REASON: I think this is a bug.

o Bug fix: strong throw to the corner won't leave O.E.Honda frozen anymore when opponent techs it.

REASON: just bug fixing.

+ Strong Throw Damage buff: Throw damage increased from 32 to 34 (if behind in rounds, increased from 34 to 36).

REASON: I'm buffing the damage of all ground throws (but not holds) of old characters so they get a small compensation for not being able to tech throws. That means that the base throw damage is 34 points now, like Dhalsim's Fierce throw in ST. Also, there will be rounds in which the behind in rounds damage will be 38 instead of 36 and thats just how the game is coded to be, the same happened with Dhalsim's Fierce throw in ST.

GROUND NORMALS

Close Standing Roundhouse:

+ Damage buff: from 4+30 to 18+30.

REASON: I'm buffing all 2-hit normals that do very little damage on one of the hits. Most of these normals are trash, this is just a way to maybe make them more usable.

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4+30 ➔ 18+30

AERIAL NORMALS

Diagonal Jumping Strong:

o Priority fix: 1st startup frame uses proper hurtboxes.

REASON: it looks like a small bug.

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Diagonal Jumping Short:

++ Priority buff: hitbox has the same size as on HF(very good priority).

REASON: Can beat low normals really well. On HF the leg hurtbox is also better, but I didn't replicate that, was a little too good.

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Neutral Jumping Forward/Roundhouse:

o Priority fix: proper hurtboxes through the entire move, like the diagonal kicks.

REASON: if you compare the hurtboxes used on the jumping kicks, the ones on neutral kicks looks like literal mistakes. The leg hurtbox (which matter the most) is the same so this change has little impact. This is just me being a perfectionist.

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COMMAND NORMALS

Forward Double Knee:

o Behavior tweak: can't be activated with upwards anymore(diagonals still work).

REASON: I think that's a bug.

o Cosmetic fix: forward attack sound on hit instead of rh.

REASON: Just bug fixing.

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H ➔ M
Body Slam:

+ Priority buff: body hurtbox and hitbox have the same size as on HF.

REASON: Just something that he had on HF.

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SPECIAL MOVES

All Specials (minus HHS):

o Behavior tweak: Input window is no longer random and is fixed at the minimum value.

REASON: The input window on all special moves is now fixed to the minimum value of 7f instead of being random at 7~14f. Having random input timers makes no sense.

Headbutt:

- Behavior tweak: can't cross over knocked down opponents anymore (now have a pushbox).

REASON: Just something that he had on HF.

- Damage nerf: Jab version 1st active part reduced from 28 to 18, like in HF.

REASON: It was this way on HF.

+ Priority tweak: Jab version 1st active part hitbox like how it was on HF.

REASON: Just something he had on HF. Now it's a very good anti cross-up move.

o Priority nerf: Jab version 2nd active part hitbox like Strong/Fierce.

REASON: It was like that on HF.

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ST NL
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28/28 ➔ 18/28
Butt Drop:

- Behavior tweak: arc of movement like on HF.

REASON: Just giving him something he had on HF. I understand this is actually a nerf on most cases, but this is good for variety. On the bright side, this is actually better to evade cross-up Wall Dives on wake up, since it's now a faster move overall.

+ Priority buff: body hurtbox on the 1st active part is now like on HF, but it's also extended 22px backwards and 1px vertically.

REASON: So it's how it was in HF. The additional nerf backwards is because Short and Forward versions will not have a leg hurtbox (unlike in HF), so they can still work the same as SSF2 Buttslam vs projectiles, and he needs to be vulnerable around his legs, just not as low as it is on HF. Finally, the additional nerf vertically is for the Short version to not pass through N.Ryu's and Akuma's Hadoukens.

+ Priority buff: hitbox on the 1st active part now is like on HF.

REASON: So it's how it was in HF.

+ Priority buff: Short and Forward versions have no leg hurtbox during the 1st active part.

REASON: so they can be used to evade projectiles just like O.Honda could in SSF2. Short can be used vs Sonic Booms, Max Outs and Yoga Fires, while Forward can be used against all (but High Tigers, of course).

+ Priority buff: hitbox on the 2nd active part now is like on HF, but expanded 4px forward.

REASON: So it's how it was in HF. The additional buff is needed for the new 2-hit ability to work vs ChunLi and Sagat if Honda does it close enough for the pushbox to touch each other while Honda is ascending.

- Damage nerf: from 24/24|28/28|32/32 to 20+12|22+12|24+12 (Short|Forward|Rh).

REASON: because of the push-back reduction, it can now combo for 2 hits. This damage nerf is needed otherwise it would do too much damage IMO. I didn't made the damage values exactly they were in HF because with the move getting 2 hits consistently because it would end up doing too much damage. I favored the 1st hit damage though in detriment of the 2nd, so the move is still usable as a trade anti air. In case you're curious, on HF the damage values are 18/12|22/16|26/20 (Short|Forward|Rh), but on that game you obviously can't get both parts to hit, otherwise the damage would be huge.

- Dizzy nerf: 1st hit dizzy reduced from 9~15 to 5~11.

REASON: needed now that it can combo for 2-hit, otherwise it would do too much dizzy.

- Dizzy/dizzy_timer nerf: Forward and Rh versions 2nd hit decreased from 9~15 to 2~8, timer reduced from 100 to 90, like the Short version.

REASON: needed now that I can combo for 2-hit, otherwise it would do too much dizzy.

+ Behavior tweak: push-back ON HIT on the 1st active part negated, and heavily reduced on the 2nd active part.

REASON: so if the 1st part hits, it can combo into the 2nd, and if the 2nd hits, Honda is close enough to try to grab the opponent (since the 2nd part doesn't KD anymore). This will not be a block string though (the push-back will be reduced only in case it hits).

- Behavior nerf: 1st hit only knockdown aerial opponents.

REASON: So it's how it was in HF.

+ Behavior/hit amount buff: Roundhouse version now hits on the way up.

REASON: Just something that was in HF. The hitbox already exists on the rom and it does knockdown, but that was way too good like that, Honda could do the move from round start distance to punish projectiles with a knockdown.

+ Behavior buff: 2nd hit now does Strong/Forward (medium) hit-stun.

REASON: so it doesn't give too much frame advantage now that the 2nd part doesn't KD anymore. Now Short is +4, Forward is +1 and Rh is -1 on hit.

- Behavior nerf: 2nd hit doesn't knockdown anymore.

REASON: Now that it can hit twice, it was too strong for it to knockdown. Now, it will set a grab opportunity instead.

o Startup tweak: frame data from HF, except Forward's 5th frame in which is kept as is (SSF2 has it 1f longer than HF).

REASON: So it's how it was in HF. The difference on the Forward version is for it the behavior against projectiles from SSF2 to be kept (read the changes above).

+ Framedata buff: "Spin" between hits faster by 3f.

REASON: So it's how it was in HF.

- Recovery nerf: slower by 4|4|5f (Short|Forward|Rh), so it's like in HF.

REASON: So it's how it was in HF.

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ST NL
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ST NL
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24/24|28/28|32/32 ➔ 20+12|22+12|24+12
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9~15(100)/2~8(90)|9~15(100)|9~15(100) ➔ 5~11(100)+2~8(90)
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