NEWLEGACY.FR

THE CHANGELOG

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- SAGAT -

Sagat on SRK Wiki (ST)

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GOAL OF THE CHANGES

To make him viable against certain top tiers while also not dominating some ST Low Tiers. The main change is by far his Low Tiger: it doesn't has the big hurtbox N.Sagat had in ST anymore and its startup is the same as O.Sagat. As a compensation the recovery is now a little longer, but the move is still 2f faster than N.Ryu's Hadoukens, so it's still pretty good regarding its frame data. No, this won't have many similarities with HDR Sagat, since I disliked most changes on it. The Tiger Knee Juggles thing for example, IMO that's a very dumb change (i fixed the problem of tiger knees not comboing in a different way). N.Sagat will still have his juggle Fierce TU since it goes kinda of well with his super... Will do some other normal changes as well. N.Sagat already has some interesting differences on his normals though. Also, his super is a lot better now (covers more ground, combos better and the reversal bug is gone).

New colors
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Original colors
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Old

To select O.Sagat, choose any color and then press :

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MISC

Throws:

+ Behavior tweak: throw vulnerability box expanded horizontally by 5px and throw-box expanded 8px forward.

REASON: the throw vulnerability box change is for it to be easier for Hawk to grab Sagat (also helps for the balance on the Zangief match-up). Hawk can't safe jump Sagat and also can't sako tick him, so he needs this kind of buff on this match-up. With that said, it's obvious that I would have to also expand Sagat's throw-box by the same amount otherwise Sagat would be too mediocre in throw range, but I went ahead and buffed his throw box 3px more than that, so now he has the same throw "range" as Shotos. So this changes doubles as a nerf and as a buff: a nerf because he can be grabbed from farther by everyone, but a buff because he can throw from farther too and this certainly helps vs Dhalsim - walk up throws are way more viable now. Just as a curiosity, I nerfed the throw vulnerability box the maximum that still allowed Sagat to be out of Honda's Oicho range when Honda does a medium strength normal as a tick from point-blank.

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ST NL

GROUND NORMALS

Far Standing Jab:

+ Priority buff: same leg hurtboxes as the close version.

REASON: just to make this move have something unique. It will still be useless I think.

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ST NL
Far Standing Strong:

+ Startup buff: 1f faster.

REASON: so he can special cancel it, that's very important vs Rog and Sim. In ST only O.Sagat had this, now it's N.Sagat that have it.

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ST
5/4/9
NL
5/4/9
Close Standing Fierce:

+ Priority buff: hitbox expanded 3px downwards (and 1px uwpards - unavoidable consequence).

REASON: so now it can hit a crouching Dhalsim. It will still miss all the other crouching characters though - Dhalsim has the tallest crouching hurtbox on the game.

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ST NL
Crouching Short:

+ Priority tweak: now it's the active part that have the bigger leg hurtbox (instead of the 1st recovery part) and as a compensation the hitbox is now expanded 10px forward.

REASON: The hurtbox thing was probably a mistake (just compare with HF hurtboxes, the priority would be exactly the same if the hurtbox was placed correctly). The buff on the hitbox is just to keep the same overall priority it used to have, so it's a best of both worlds sort of thing. This will still have considerable less range than Crouching Forward by the way.

+ Damage buff: from 4 to 12.

REASON: No ground light normal that is not chain cancelable should do so little damage, unless there's a reason for it, and I don't think it's the case here.

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ST NL
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4 ➔ 12
Standing Forward:

+ Priority buff: leg hurtbox during 2nd active part decreased 3px upwards and 5px downwards.

REASON: So now it counters Dhalsim Far Standing Forward and whiffs vs Dhalsim Crouching Punches. It can now counter Boxer's Crouching Strong now too. It will also whiff vs Chun's Crouching Rh too, which is ok for balance. Note that the hurtbox is still more vulnerable downwards than O.Sagat's (it still loses to Blanka's Crouching Fierce, Zangief Crouching Punches, Cammy Standing Rh).

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Crouching Forward:

+ Priority buff: leg hurtbox during active parts moved 1px downwards.

REASON: With Fei's adjustment on Crouching Strong and Forward Flame Kick, he was being able to beat Sagats Low kicks. This little change addresses this problem. Luckily, this change doesn't has impact vs any other ground move on the game.

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ST NL
Crouching Roundhouse:

- Priority nerf: body hurtbox during the recovery parts like the one from crouching punches.

REASON: Zangief can now punish it better with his Standing Forward. In case Zangief gets too spammy with his Standing Forward, keep in mind that Sagat can counter it cleanly with his Standing Rh.

- Priority nerf: leg hurtbox during the 1st recovery part like on crouching short recovery frame.

REASON: Must be a easier punishable move like Shoto/Zangief sweeps. Now it can be punished on reaction with sweeps, like on shoto mirrors. This is done mainly for the N.Ken match-up.

+ Priority buff: leg hurtbox during active frames moved 1px downwards.

REASON: With Fei's adjustment on Crouching Strong and Forward Flame Kick, he was being able to beat Sagats Low kicks. This little change addresses this problem. Luckily, this change doesn't has impact vs any other ground move on the game.

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AERIAL NORMALS

Diagonal Jumping Jab:

- Priority fix: hitbox on (what should be) the 1st recovery frame removed.

REASON: It was a bug.

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ST NL
Neutral Jumping Fierce:

++ Priority buff: now is a move with very good vertical priority and reach but very poor forward priority.

REASON: Mainly a tool to fight Dhalsim. It beats Dhalsim's slide cleanly now and also has enough priority to trade with all Dhalsims anti airs (similar to Guile Neutral Jumping Fierce).

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ST NL
Diagonal Jumping Fierce:

++ Priority buff: now is a move with very good vertical priority and reach but very poor forward priority.

REASON: Mainly a tool to fight Dhalsim. It beats Dhalsim's slide now (N.Dhalsim: if it hits around his head or body, but not his legs; O.Sim: only around his head) and also has enough priority to get in better on Sim. It can be very hard for Dhalsim to beat this move, and I think this is fair considering how dominant Dhalsim is on Neutral.

- Dizzy nerf: from 11~17 to 3~9, like Shoto diagonal jumping heavy attacks.

REASON: The priority is now very good. The stun must be nerfed otherwise this move will result in too much unintended dizzies.

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ST NL
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11~17 ➔ 3~9
Neutral Jumping Short:

+ Behavior/Priority buff: redone priority, now hurtbox and hitboxes match the sprite.

REASON: The real reason for this change is that I need a free foot hurtbox for the Diagonal Jumping Fierce change, but there isn't a single one foot hurtbox available. By replacing the hurtbox used with another one (which is bigger) I also buffed the hitbox to not make this move even more awful than what it already is.

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ST NL
Neutral Jumping Forward:

+ Priority buff: same priority as Diagonal Jumping Roundhouse.

REASON: The priority is too bad for a Neutral Jumping move. It will still be underused though (because Neutral Roundhouse outclasses it).

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ST NL
Diagonal Jumping Forward:

+ Priority buff: hitbox expanded 6px backwards and 2px downwards.

REASON: The backwards buff is for it to be more easily spaced for cross-ups, because of where the pushbox is placed it is actually hard to space the move properly for it to cross up against part of the cast. The downwards buff is for it to be a real cross-up vs Chun, Guile and Dictator, because on ST this move doesn't hit low enough so these characters can just crouch and this move then whiffs completely. Blanka and Cammy still can crouch it though (Sagat already beats then on ST by a considerable margin).

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ST NL
Diagonal Jumping Roundhouse:

- Dizzy nerf: from 11~17 to 3~9, like Shoto diagonal jumping heavy attacks.

REASON: Removing his abusable stuff (too much dizzy potential).

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11~17 ➔ 3~9

SUPER / SPECIAL MOVES

All Specials/Super:

o Behavior tweak: Input window is no longer random and is fixed at the minimum value.

REASON: The input window on all special moves is now fixed to the minimum value of 7f instead of being random at 7~14f. Having random input timers makes no sense.

o Behavior tweak: 1st input's timer now stays at the maximum value while the 1st input is being hold.

REASON: I am doing this to all non charge special moves. This fixes a problem that affected even the best players on the world regarding walk in DPs: depending on the timing you go for downward (2nd required input for a DP), a walk-in DP would always fail. Lemme explain: on the 1st frame that you input towards (1st required input for a DP), the input COUNTER will be updated and the input TIMER will receive a value that will be decremented on each frame (this is the input timer, this was semi-random on unmodified ST, but is now a fixed value on my hack), meaning you have up to 6 frames to input downwards (2nd required input for a DP). If you input downwards before that timer reaches 0, the counter will be updated again, the timer will also receive a new value again and will then wait for the 3rd input direction required (down-forward). But there's a problem: if you spent all these 6 frames walking forward and then input downward on the 7th frame, the input window will not be increased because at that moment the DP input counter would be back to 0 and is now expecting the 1st input direction again. If you do it on 8th frame it will work though. And that's only considering a frame perfect scenario, a human player will spend more than 1 frame to go from forward to down so there are more than enough chances of missing. So that means that walk in DPs will fail around 10%~20% of the time, not even the Grand Masters can avoid this fact.
With my change, this problem is solved: it's now possible to be 100% consistent with walk-in DPs. I also applied this same change to all non charge special moves as well, since there isn't really a reason to not do it. Normal anti-air (stationary) DPs are not any easier though.

Low/High Tiger Shot (shared):

- Bug fix: recovery amount is now set properly (value was being set based on the strength of the last normal used, instead of the button used for the special move), separates High Tiger and Low Tiger recoveries.

REASON: Bug fixing. The Low Tiger Recovery values are present on the rom, but never are used due to a programmer mistake. This was fixed on HSF2.

High Tiger Shot:

+ Priority buff: leg hurtbox like O.Sagat.

REASON: Sagat's Tigers were over nerfed on ST... This is very important on the Dhalsim match-up, but of course affects most his match-ups.

o Behavior fix: jab version during the initial 2 frames now have a projectile pushbox (as it should).

REASON: Just bug fixing.

+ Recovery buff: from 38|40|42 to 38|39|40 (Short|Forward|Rh).

REASON: Being forced to have 42f of recovery on Fierce Tiger (now that the recovery bug was fixed) seemed like too much IMO. This is a compensation for it.

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ST
10/38
NL
10/38
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10/40
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10/39
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ST
10/42
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10/40
Low Tiger Shot:

- Dizzy nerf: from 9~15 to 7~13.

REASON: Sagat's Tigers are the projectiles with the most dizzy on the game (tied with Yoga Fires), it's clear that they need to be nerfed slightly.

++ Priority buff: arm hurtbox like O.Sagat.

REASON: Sagat's Tigers were over nerfed on ST...

++ Startup buff: 2f faster, like Old Sagat.

REASON: Sagat's Tigers were over nerfed on ST... I think he needs this to fight the ST Top tiers. The low tiers will receive proper buffs to deal with it by the way.

- Recovery nerf: from 38|40|42 to 40|41|42 (Short|Forward|Rh).

REASON: Needed to balance N.Sagat now that both the startup and the hurtbox was buffed to be like O.Sagat. His Low Tiger is now 2f faster than N.Ryu's Hadoukens (1f Startup and 1f Recovery) and that makes sense since Ryu has way more tools than Sagat plus when they face each other Ryu even has a easier way avoiding it (Short Tatsus) than Sagat. I still don't know how this frame data plus the better hurtbox will behave vs the ST low/mid tiers though. I hope the buffs I gave them are enough to counter this (Zangief's Jab Green Hand, Blanka's Sweep, Ken's Short Tatsu, Cammy's BackFists... and Hawk has a whole new game plan vs Sagat now).

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9~15 ➔ 7~13
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ST NL
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ST
12/38
NL
10/40
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12/40
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10/41
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ST
12/42
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10/42
Tiger Uppercut:

+ Behavior/Priority buff: Jab version's 2nd active part body hurtbox reduced 28px downwards, 3rd active part leg hurtbox reduced 12px downwards.

REASON: so it can now pass through Yoga Fires (as well as Sonic Booms). I think everyone agrees that this is OK vs Dhalsim. Although it may also be argued that this won't change much, but it's something. It passing through Sonic Booms is an unintended and unavoidable impact of this change. I can see the argument saying that vs Guile this is not fair or not needed but Guile recovers so fast that I really doubt this will change much. If I am wrong and this does makes the match-up vs Guile too easy then I'll undo this. This is a very experimental change.

- Priority fix: 1st recovery frame now got proper hurtboxes.

REASON: Just so they match the sprite. This is definitely a nerf, but a minor one. On block, Jab Tiger Uppercut is not any easier to be punished because of this change, but when whiffed it will be possible to hit Sagat from a little farther while he's still on the air than before though. To be fair, the opponent could just walk forward a little bit and still punish Sagat landing frame though, this is why this nerf means very little. By the way, the hurtboxes used on ST are actually from the other animation, that's why they look so strange. The proper hurtboxes already exist on the rom, so I'm just using what already exists.

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Tiger Knee:

+ Startup buff: Short version now 1f faster.

REASON: Just to blend better between versions (Short/Fwd/Rh is now 3f/4f/5f).

+ Priority buff: 1st active part's head hurtbox decreased by 2px upwards.

REASON: so Sim's Far Standing Forward whiffs vs it. I know this won't be revolutionary on this bad match-up, but since this doesn't seem to bring any bad impacts, then why not?

+ Behavior buff: push-back on hit during the 1st part negated.

REASON: so it can combo better. There will be situations in which it will still not combo, but I refuse to go the HDR road and make it juggle.

+ Behavior buff: hit type on 1st hit forced to be of a Short (to have short push-back animation).

REASON: The change above wasn't enough. Now it combos correctly vs Shotos!

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ST
4/3/3/2/3/20
NL
3/3/3/2/3/20
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Super:

o Behavior fix/tweak: remove the leftover code that allows it to be activated with kick buttons, if pressed on the same frame as the last input.

REASON: It's definitely a leftover. CAPCOM probably just went back to the idea of making it activate with Punches and Kicks but forgot to remove the kick detection from one part of the code. It's not like it was useful anyway.

+ Bug fix/behavior buff: usable as Reversal.

REASON: Sagat deserves it.

+ Behavior buff: horizontal movement during the uppercut part like Fierce Tiger Uppercut.

REASON: just to make the super a little better since it's very far from being one of the best...

+ Behavior buff: normal standing pushbox during the 1st hit.

REASON: so Sagat won't crossover a crouch blocking opponent.

+ Behavior fix: hit order corrected.

REASON: Now if the 1st hit beats a low move and the 2nd hit misses, the 3rd hit will also hit.

+ Behavior buff: push-back on hit during the non-juggling hits negated.

REASON: So it will combo properly if the 1st hit(the low hitting one) beats a poke from a little less than mid-screen (e.g. Guile's Crouching Forward).

+ Behavior buff: 1st and 4th hits now do Light BLOCK stun/push-back, 2nd hit now do Medium Block stun/push-back.

REASON: will get 5 hits of chip damage if the 1st one hits. Sagat's super is kinda average (even with my changes) so I think this is fair. No reason for Boxer's or Ryu's etc to be so easy to be used as a chip killer but not Sagat's.

+ Framedata tweak: 4th hitting part now stays active for 1f more, 5th hitting part now stays active for 2f more.

REASON: So the 5th hit has more chance of hitting the opponent.

+ Priority buff: hitbox on the 5th hit(2nd TU hit) expanded 8px upwards.

REASON: So the 5th hit has more chance of hitting the opponent.

+ Damage tweak/buff: from 16*6 to 4+12+18+12+18+28.

REASON: the damage amount is more consistent now (hitting parts that rarely hit now do less damage but parts that always hit now do more), even though the total damage done is a little less now, but this is on 90% of the cases a buff.

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16x6 ➔ 4+12+18+12+18+28

SAGAT'S BAD MATCHUPS THAT NEEDED FIXING (and how I did it):

Dhalsim:

Sim can't use Short Kick Drill to punish Low Tigers on reaction anymore (but it can still work on prediction) and Forward Kick Drill is also harder to be used at that. Also, Sagat can now beat anti air slides with the new aerial fierces. The better leg priority on High Tigers (copied from O.Sagat) makes it much more safe vs Sim's Low punches. This forces Dhalsim to counter with the Standing Punches, but these received a hurtbox nerf and can now be hit by High Tigers during the startup and recovery. This allows Sagat to throw High Tigers in a more safer way. Also, the throw range difference is now not as big, this can help Sagat to counter throw. Sagat's Close Standing Fierce can now hit a crouching Dhalsim too. Finally, Dhalsim's Jumping Forward isn't as strong anymore vs Sagat because now Sagat have a very good answer to it: a Low Tiger will now hit Dhalsim ou of his aerial kick recovery, granting Sagat a KD. If Dhalsim then decides to delay the kick to beat Sagat's Low Tiger, then that means Sagat can Uppercut it.
The match-up is much more honest now. I believe N.Sagat can compete evenly with Dhalsim now.

Boxer:

Sagat received a lot of buffs and Boxer received some nerfs so I hope this will end up being maybe around a 4-6, but I have no idea. Nothing directed to this match-up was done. The main help is definitely the better Low Tigers.

Claw:

Sagat received a lot of buffs and Claw received some nerfs so I hope this will end up being maybe around a 4-6, but I have no idea. Claw's Standing Forward is more vulnerable to Sagat's Crouching Punches now. But the main help is definitely the better Low Tigers and the fact that Sagat can now punish blocked Wall Dives easily with his sweep.

Dictator:

Low tigers don't have a huge hurtbox anymore so it won't be punishable from "all over the screen" like it was on ST. New Jumping Fierce now gives Sagat a solid jumping counter to Psycho Crusher. But the main help is definitely the better Low Tigers.