NEWLEGACY.FR

THE CHANGELOG

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- ZANGIEF -

Zangief on SRK Wiki (ST)

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GOAL OF THE CHANGES

N.Zangief will be the only grappler with a whiff animation on his 360 (O.Zangief will be hacked to be like HF Zangief). I'm giving N.Zangief a lot of small buffs to his moves so he can get in better (the new Green Hand for example). The focus here is on the bad match-ups obviously, I'm doing the best I can to not change the Shotos/DeeJay/Dictator/Hawk match-ups too much, since they were already OK in balance. Only a few of these changes are really game changing though. I'll also make some changes so ticking into a Suplex instead of a SPD is a more realistic choice, because in ST there's little reason/opportunity to go for a Suplex.

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To select O.Zangief, choose any color and then press :

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MISC

Throws:

+ Behavior buff: Fierce normal throw's set amount of hits increased from 4 to 5.

REASON: Just so this grab isn't totally outclassed by the Rh one. It will still be unused though, considering Zangief has much better options on his command throws.

+ Recovery buff: Forward normal throw recovers 10f faster.

REASON: So when used while being cornered, Zangief will not be left at exaggerated frame disadvantage, if softened. This throw always looked cool, but wasn't usable because of the very slow recovery, now it's finally usable.

o Behavior tweak: aerial throws can't be activated with down anymore (diagonals still work).

REASON: I think this is a bug.

+ Behavior buff: aerial throws minimal activation height on the upwards part of the jump reduced from 48 to 32.

REASON: Just making it a little more usable.

+ Behavior buff: Punch air throw range buffed by 14px forward and 14px upwards.

REASON: The horizontal buff is because it was by far the worse air throw on the game. Now it's somewhat on par with the other air throws. The vertical buff is for it to be able to be used vs Claw's Wall Dive. It will also make it easier to use vs other characters, but still, air throws are hard to use so I don't really see harm on this buff.

Passive grab animations:

+ Behavior buff: last SPD animation vs Chun Li tweaked so now she bounces properly when cornered.

REASON: on ST, Zangief couldn't really follow up with anything, it was very unfair. Now Zangief can either time a safe tick or do a delayed jump (beats Tensho). This will also affect mid-screen SPDs, making Zangief land a little closer to her (not enough to attempt another tick though).
IMPACTS: This also affects the positioning after a Strong throw on this match-up.

+ Behavior buff: last SPD animation vs Claw tweaked so now he bounces properly when cornered.

REASON: on ST, Zangief couldn't follow up with anything most of the time. He could use a Jab SPD to not get too closer to the corner and then maybe there would be enough time for a safe tick, but to be forced to do this on one of the most annoying matches was really unfair. Now there's time for Zangief to time a safe tick or a safe jump (also, sometimes it sets a built in safe jump).
IMPACTS: This also affects the positioning after a Strong throw on this match-up.

- Behavior nerf: last SPD animation vs Fei Long tweaked so now he bounces a little farther when not cornered.

REASON: on ST, Zangief is really owned by Fei long footsies/neutral game, so it made sense that Zangief could loop SPD ticks even on mid-screen, but now the BS Fei had vs Zangief is now fixed (for the most part) so it's only fair that the SPD looping on mid screen had to go. Zangief now only have that against Hawk (unsafe) and Honda (safe and fair).
IMPACTS: This also affects the positioning after a Strong throw on this match-up.

GROUND NORMALS

Far Standing Jab:

- Damage nerf: from 16 to 14.

REASON: It's the only way I could think of to nerf Zangief a little on the Boxer match-up. On ST that match-up is fair, slightly in Zangief's favor, but now that Boxer received so many nerfs, including damage related ones, it definitely turned in somewhat too much Zangief's favor. Since this move is a key one on that match-up, I decided to nerf the damage potential on it as a compensation. The other match-ups in which this move is good are vs N.Ken (against his St.Rh) which is in favor of N.Zangief, Dictator (against his standing/scissor kicks) which is a fair/balanced mu, and Claw (against his crouching punches) which was a bad match-up. This move is also used against Honda's HHS as a trade, which unfortunately is a little worse now, but Zangief received so many buffs on this match-up that I think it will end being OK. I also think that the removal of the Strong Hop compensates for this, since Standing Strong can be more easily used as a substitute for this (no need to go to neutral direction to use it).

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16 ➔ 14
Standing Strong:

+ Priority buff: 2nd startup frame head hurtbox reduced forward by 20px.

REASON: the fact that it had such a big hurtbox before getting active was kinda bad, now it's a little better as a poke, this is needed now that Far Standing Jab received a nerf. Plus there were no reason for the hurtbox to be projected early: this move does not have good priority and even whiffs against most crouching characters.

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Crouching Strong:

++ Priority buff: hitbox expanded 2px forward, head hurtbox priority reduced forward by 28px while active, but also have that head hurtbox during the 2nd startup frame as well as during the 1st recovery frame.

REASON: Honda match-up: Zangief needs a move that counters HHS well and at the same time can beat Headbutt while doing enough damage, in case it trades (Crouching Jab clearly wasn't enough). The head hurtbox nerf is for it to not be too good vs Dictator: Dictator's Standing Rh is now a counter to it.

++ Framedata buff: startup 1f faster, stays active for 2f less, recovery 1f faster (4f faster in total).

REASON: So it can be used more easily vs Honda's HHS. All the Crouching Strongs that are used in the game to counter HHS are way faster than Zangief's(even with my change). I won't make Zangief's that faster though, Zangief's is still slower than all of them, but not too slower now.

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ST NL
ST
6/8/9
NL
5/6/8
Standing Fierce:

+ Behavior buff: Full Knockdown on hit.

REASON: The main reason is for it to be used to trade with Dhalsim's Kicks and maybe with Honda's HHS, also it looks very nice and now it gives a fair trade off, since the recovery is so slow... Plus, it gives Zangief an answer to some very annoying neutral jump moves, e.g. Blanka's Forward, Sagat's Rh or maybe even Guile's Fierce. This will be a trade obviously. Of course, it's not like these characters can't neutral jump anymore, here are some counters to Zangief's Standing Fierce: Blanka's' Short, Sagat's Strong, Guile's Strong. They can also do an empty neutral jump and whiff punish Zangief's Fierce, since it has big hurtboxes and a long recovery. I have no idea if this is too good. It'll probably end being okay though, since I'll do the proper compensations on it so it doesn't break any match-ups (see below).

- Priority nerf: hitbox moved 1px upwards.

REASON: Standing Fierce Knocking down had the potential of screwing up the balance on the Dictator match-up, since his main tool to keep Zangief away is the usage of well spaced Standing Kicks, which get beaten/trade with Fierce and are useful even when Zangief knows you're going for them. With this change, this move won't be able to hit Dictator's leg hurtbox during his standing kicks anymore. Another little plus is that it won't be able to hit Boxer during the active frames of his sweep (unless too close) which is good for balance too, though I doubt this would come into play very often. This also makes it hard to trade with Honda's HHS, which would be good actually but I'd rather avoid unplanned changes as much as possible (i mean regarding the Dictator match-up). Maybe this change is unneeded and this would actually still be fine vs Dictator? Since this is such a high risky move for Zangief... I guess I'll never find out because I'm opting to play safe regarding this change.

+ Priority buff: head hurtbox during the active frames decreased 3px downwards but increased 1px upwards.

REASON: While it's fair for it to not be able to hit Dictator's legs on his Standing kicks (because of the knockdown), it's not fair for Dictator's Standing Rh to beat this move completely, so now with this change both moves will whiff, if done from far.

+ Damage buff/random damage buff: from 30(1) to 34(2).

REASON: this move was totally useless. Now it's the most damaging normal in the game. It does look very powerful so it makes sense. I guess it could be argued that the knock down is enough reward for the proper use for this move, but I don't think a little more damage will make it OP. Yeah, this is just me being a Zangief "fanboy".

- Framedata nerf/Cosmetic tweak: startup 2f slower, stays active for 2f less, recovery 1f faster, different sprites on the last recovery frames.

REASON: So this move is harder to use on combos as well as a reaction to stuff. Just to somewhat compensate the other buffs this move received. The frame data changes (as well as sprite changes) are also for it to animate more "fiercelly", all in all the frame data changes are a nerf, but that's OK since this is a brand new tool Zangief is receiving.

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30(1) ➔ 34(2)
ST
6/6/29
NL
8/4/28
Crouching Fierce:

+ Recovery buff: 4f faster (now -5 on hit instead of -9).

REASON: So it's a little more viable for it to be timed as a tick (still must be meaty timed, though).

+ Priority buff: hitbox expanded upwards by 2px, like in HDR.

REASON: helps to counter Claw's Dives. It will still trade sometimes, but the rate in which it will beat them cleanly increases considerably. This is probably the only HDR Zangief change that I agree 100% with. Keep in mind that Claw can still grab Zangief out of this move though, so this is very far from being a total counter to Claw's dives.

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6/8/23 (-9 on hit)
NL
6/8/19 (-5 on hit)
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Close Standing Short:

+ Startup buff: 2f faster.

REASON: just to link better after a cross up, which is the only scenario where this move is usable...

+ Priority buff: hitbox expanded forward by 10px.

REASON: Sometimes it whiffs completely, specially after a move that gives a lot of push-back. This addresses that problem.

+ Behavior buff: activation range decreased by 10px.

REASON: Will come out less often when unwanted. As a tick this is only used when near point blank range anyway. This obviously makes ticking with Far Standing Short possible in situations in which it wasn't, but I think this change does no harm because: 1) Zangief already could use Crouching Jab instead (in fact it's preferable when that close), and 2) only on mirrors it's now possible to do Far Standing Short x3 as a tick string.

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ST
7/8/5
NL
5/8/5
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32 ➔ 22
Crouching Short:

+ Priority buff: hitbox expanded 17px forward (hitbox copied from Crouching Forward).

REASON: Just so Zangief has a decent block string when going for a Suplex (the tick needs to end with a normal that gives low frame advantage to ensure a Running Grab don't come out instead). For tick into SPDs Far Standing Short should still be favored anyway.

+ Recovery buff: 1f slower (now +1(+0 if part of a string) on block instead of +2(+1 if part of a string)).

REASON: So when done during a block string it will be +0, meaning a Running Bear Grab won't come out. The ticks that are not too long that end with Crouching Short are excellent setups for a Suplex. Initially I made it 2f slower recovery so it would be perfect to tick into Suplex. The problem is that then Close Short would be useless, so I will make it only 1f so it's still better as a tick into Suplex but is still not perfect (requires it to be part of a block string otherwise it will still give a frame of advantage).

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ST
3/4/7 (+2(+1 if part of a string))
NL
3/4/8 (+1(+0 if part of a string))
Close Standing Forward:

+ Startup buff: 1f faster.

REASON: just to link better after a cross up.

+ Framedata buff: stays active for 4f more (now +1(+0 if part of a string) on block instead of +5(+4 if part of a string)).

REASON: it sounds like a nerf but it's actually a buff: it's now a perfect move to use as a tick into Suplex/super (this move finally has a use now!). On ST, Crouching Strong was perfect for ticking into Suplex (had only +1f of advantage, or +0 if on a block string), but I tweaked its frame data so Zangief had no move of medium strength good for ticking into Suplex. Now this is solved.

o Priority tweak: 2nd startup frame and active frame now have appropriate hurtboxes, just like Far Forward.

REASON: Doesn't really impact the move (since it's a non-anti air close normal) and makes more sense this way. But the real reason for this change is that I needed a free hurtbox slot for the Standing Strong change.

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ST
6/4/9 (+5(+4 if part of a string))
NL
5/8/9 (now +1(+0 if part of a string))
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Far Standing Forward:

- Priority nerf: move hitbox 1px upwards.

REASON: So now it can only hit Crouching Shotos on their head hurtbox, not on their body hurtbox. This makes it have 2px less range on footsies vs Shotos (from 14px of advantage to 12px) while still behaving the same vs all other crouching characters (it would change vs Claw too if it wasn't for my nerf on him for the Fei match-up). This is also an important change because it allows the change on Shotos sweep for this match-up.
IMPACTS: Guile's Crouching Strong will now beat this move cleanly (before it was a trade), but this is OK because Zangief's Far Standing Forward can now beat Guile's Crouching Forward now (!!!, see Guile change on his Crouching Forward).

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Crouching Forward:

+ Priority buff: hitbox expanded forward by 8px.

REASON: to be honest this is not really needed to balance Zangief, it's just for it to blend between Short and Rh (since Short was buffed, it wouldn't make sense for it to have the same range as Short)... it still is bad on footsies and should be limited as a combo ender or as a point blank tick, really.

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Far Standing Roundhouse:

+ Priority buff: head hurtboxes during recovery from walk back animation.

REASON: helps against Claw dives, both punch and kick ones. Plus, it fits better Zangief's sprite (not that this is extremely important). Note that Claw dives now have less horizontal priority than this move now, but he can beat it by hitting Zangief out of it's startup.

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Close Standing Roundhouse:

o Priority fix: now has a leg hurtbox on the 2nd startup frame.

REASON: Just bug fixing, has no effect on gameplay at all.

+ Startup/frame data buff: startup is 1f faster, 1st active part stays active for 3f less.

REASON: So the 2nd active part comes out faster by 4f, which is the one that has a chance of being useful (as an anti air). Still hardly usable though.

+ Recovery buff: 8f faster.

REASON: So after successfully using it as anti air, there will be enough time to set a tick into SPD, just like it can be done with Close Standing Jab.

+ Damage buff/Dizzy tweak: from 30+4 to 20+30, swapped the dizzy between hits, so the 2nd hit does more dizzy.

REASON: I'm buffing all 2-hit normals that do very little damage on one of the hits. Most of these normals are trash, this is just a way to maybe make them more usable. Also the 2nd part is now a good anti air.

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ST NL
ST
9/6/8/31
NL
8/3/8/23
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30+4 ➔ 20+30 10~16+1~7 ➔ 1~7+10~16
Crouching Roundhouse:

- Priority fix/nerf: last frame uses the same bigger hurtboxes as the recovery frame before.

REASON: no reason to have better hurtbox for 1 frame only. Looks like a bug/mistake to me.

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AERIAL NORMALS

Jumping punches with the "chop animation" (i.e. all but Diagonal Fierce):

+ Priority tweaks/buff: general changes for all of them to be useful.

REASON: In ST, on diagonal jumps the strong chop was always the best choice and on neutral jumps the fierce one was the one to go. All the other "chop" like moves were outclassed and had no use. With my change, now Jab still has almost no range but now also has no hurtbox projected out of place, as well as more active frames (so it may be used vs Claw's Wall dives in a back jump, I guess). Strong only has a hurtbox projected during the 2nd active part (and +2f of active frames on 2nd part, so it blends between Jab/Fierce). Neutral Fierce has a better hurtbox during the recovery part only. Also, the neutral versions are equal to the diagonal versions now (Jab and Strong).

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Neutral Jumping Forward:

+ Priority buff: 1st recovery animation now uses the smaller leg hurtbox from Diagonal Jumping Rh.

REASON: Just so this move can have a use. In ST, Neutral Rh is useful, and Neutral Short can somewhat be used as a tick, but Neutral Forward had no realistic use at all. Now it can be used as a substitute for Neutral Rh: while having less range and damage, it will be safer if whiffed. I still doubt this move will ever be used realistically, but at least it has something that no other Neutral Kick (on Zangief's arsenal) has. Maybe on the Blanka match-up it can be used?

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COMMAND NORMALS

Hop:

+ Behavior buff: Strong version removed entirely, Fierce version only activates with towards.

REASON: Like in HDR. Theres no reason to have two variants of it. Plus, the Strong version now won't get on the way when wanting to use Standing Strong as a poke. Having the Fierce Hop not activating with backwards is of less importance but is still nice to have.

+ Recovery buff: Fierce version recovers 5f faster (2f faster than Strong hop on ST).

REASON: The way it is in ST is not good enough to be used in footsies. Zangief shouldn't have this vs Shotos I guess, but against everyone else it's definitely fair. Vs Shotos the footsies game will be compensated (check the Standing Forward change).

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ST
14/10/18
NL
14/10/13
Headbutts/Stomach Crunch:

+ Dizzy buff: from 21~27 to 28~34 (instant dizzy like in GMC).

REASON: Zangief deserves it... It was fair on the japanese version.

o Behavior tweak: Remove the Strong Headbutt entirely.

REASON: The move is useless, the Fierce version definitely outclassed it. Theres no reason to have 2 variants of it really.

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21~27 ➔ 28~34

SUPER / SPECIAL MOVES

All Specials/Super (minus Lariats):

o Behavior tweak: Input window is no longer random and is fixed at the minimum value.

REASON: The input window on all special moves is now fixed to the minimum value of 7f instead of being random at 7~14f. Having random input timers makes no sense.

o Behavior tweak: 1st input's timer now stays at the maximum value while the 1st input is being hold.

REASON: I am doing this to all non charge special moves. This fixes a problem that affected even the best players on the world regarding walk in DPs: depending on the timing you go for downward (2nd required input for a DP), a walk-in DP would always fail. Lemme explain: on the 1st frame that you input towards (1st required input for a DP), the input COUNTER will be updated and the input TIMER will receive a value that will be decremented on each frame (this is the input timer, this was semi-random on unmodified ST, but is now a fixed value on my hack), meaning you have up to 6 frames to input downwards (2nd required input for a DP). If you input downwards before that timer reaches 0, the counter will be updated again, the timer will also receive a new value again and will then wait for the 3rd input direction required (down-forward). But there's a problem: if you spent all these 6 frames walking forward and then input downward on the 7th frame, the input window will not be increased because at that moment the DP input counter would be back to 0 and is now expecting the 1st input direction again. If you do it on 8th frame it will work though. And that's only considering a frame perfect scenario, a human player will spend more than 1 frame to go from forward to down so there are more than enough chances of missing. So that means that walk in DPs will fail around 10%~20% of the time, not even the Grand Masters can avoid this fact.
With my change, this problem is solved: it's now possible to be 100% consistent with walk-in DPs. I also applied this same change to all non charge special moves as well, since there isn't really a reason to not do it. Normal anti-air (stationary) DPs are not any easier though.

SPD:

+ Behavior tweak: fix the logic which chooses the direction that the SPD will bounce to.

REASON: SPDs that end on UP or DOWN should always bounce backward (side independent) instead of always to the left. Because of this, using Zangief on the 2P side is actually worse on unmodified ST, since on 2P side there is no PRACTICAL walk-in (i.e. starting at towards) SPD motion that bounces backwards. With this change this is now fixed (from a walk in SPD (i.e. starting at forward) you can choose if you want it to bounce backwards (end at UP) or forwards (end at FORWARD)).

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Atomic Suplex:

+ Behavior buff: Short/Forward versions now uses the Rh Suplex throw-box.

REASON: theres no reason for them to not have the same range as the Rh version. Rh is still better for the most part (a little more damage), but at least Short and Forward aren't extremely outclassed by it anymore, so pianoing kicks are now a valid way for a Reversal Suplex.

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Running Bear Grab:

+ Behavior buff: now triggers the blocking animation of the opponent.

REASON: I think it's fair for this move to be like this. Cammy's Hooligans are like that too and they're effectively a better move all around than Running Bear Grabs and they're OK. Yes, I know you can kara-cancel a normal move into it to get the same effect, but why should Zangief need this to deal with this hurdle if the move itself is already mediocre? Anyone with good reflexes can just sweep it anyway, so even the counter to it is better than Hooligan counters (usually just a quick jab).

+ Damage buff/tweak: does the same damage as Zangief' Normal Throws and now do "throw damage" instead of "normal damage" (i.e. not affected by randomness, different damage scaling?).

REASON: This is a good way IMO to make this move more interesting. This worked well on Cammy's Hooligan so I can't see why it wouldn't be the same in this case. This suddenly makes the Running Grab way more interesting to use.

+ Startup buff: 2f/1f faster (Short/Forward).

REASON: Only the Roundhouse version was useful in ST. I hope that with these changes the other versions can be usable as well.

Punch Lariat:

+ Priority buff: head hurtbox moved 1px upwards.

REASON: always beats Honda's Headbutt while bringing almost no change to the game otherwise.
IMPACTS: The only change so far is that Claw's Standing Forward won't hit anymore, but that wasn't even Claw's best counter to lariats anyway...

- Behavior nerf: super meter given decreased from 6 to 4 points.

REASON: Zangief's super is a lot better now. This is just to compensate it. Zangief will have to spin more to fill the meter.

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6 ➔ 4
Kick Lariat:

+ Priority buff: head hurtbox moved 1px upwards.

REASON: always beats Honda's Headbutt while bringing almost no change to the game otherwise.
IMPACTS: The only change so far is that Claw's Standing Forward won't hit anymore, but that wasn't even Claw's best counter to lariats anyway...

- Behavior nerf: super meter given decreased from 6 to 4 points.

REASON: Zangief's super is a lot better now. This is just to compensate it. Zangief will have to spin more to fill the meter.

+ Priority buff: leg hurtbox decreased upwards by 5px.

REASON: Sim's Far Standing Fierce now whiffs against it (I buffed the minimum necessary for this i.e. it's now at the maximum possible size that allows this, low normals and DP moves sill beats it normally). Dhalsim will still be able to beat it with his crouching punches, but these have slightly less range and can also be avoided with a hop, so beating Kick lariats won't be as safe as it was in ST. This is also important on the N.Fei match-up, since I buffed his Forward Flame Kick, it would be able to beat Kick Lariat if it wasn't for this change.
IMPACTS: T.Hawk's SRK is the only "DP" move that won't hit Zangief anymore from the invincible frames, and on like 1/3 of the time it will trade on the next frames, with Zangief having the trade advantage... this is bad I know, but T.Hawk mixes the typhoon with dives, not with DPs so in real matches it won't matter. Plus, on N.T.Hawk's Strong and Fierce DP's now hits lower so they will still beat 3K lariat. A plus on this change though is that now all Fei's Rekka Ken punches will whiff instead of only the first one, which is fair and helps Zangief casually. And since Fei's super is not 100% invulnerable anymore, Zangief can use the 3K Lariat to beat his super on reaction now(!), which is a big help on that match. Finally, Chun's Crouching Rh now whiffs against it, this is good for balance as well, specially considering the 3K lariat can't even reach Chun's head hurtbox during Kikouken's recovery.

++ Priority buff: body hurtbox during the last frame decreased 30px downwards.

REASON: Now Zangief can block sonic booms and yoga fires like he can with 3P lariat (the other projectiles can NOT be blocked). This is very important vs Guile and Dhalsim.

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6 ➔ 4
Green Hand:

+ Behavior tweak: SRK input.

REASON: You won't get green hands when you go for SPDs anymore. Anyone that practiced SPDs enough didn't had a problem with this, but the same can be said for N.Kens Crazy kicks when playing footsies... That doesn't mean that it shouldn't be corrected. And I know, if you're already used to ST Zangief this will look strange, but here's a trick... Just do it like a SRK every time and it will work on ST and New Legacy.

+ Behavior buff: Jab travels 14px less ground, Strong stays the same, Fierce travels 14px more (all proportional to their new frame data - see changes below).

REASON: Giving Zangief new tools. Jab is good for projectile evading and Fierce is specially created to counter Cammy blocked Thrust Kick, but is also the better version for ending combos.

+ Startup tweak: Jab version 1f faster, Strong stays the same, Fierce 1f slower.

REASON: Since Fierce Green Hand travels a little farther, it can now hit Ryu after a blocked DP from a little farther than a Reversal SPD could grab Ryu. By making Fierce green hand 2f slower, it would hit Ryu only on the grounded frame so he wouldn't be knocked down and would be able to punish Zangief (Fierce Green Hand has very big recovery). But making it 2f slower makes it too hard to use vs Cammy Thrust Kick (the reason I modified this move to begin with) since then it will have to be a reversal so now it's only 1f slower, requiring a reversal to be used like that vs Ryu, but not vs Cammy.
As for the Jab 1f buff on startup, it's just so Jab Green Hand still covers the same proportional ground as Strong Green Hand (Jab version covers less ground now but has better frame data, strong is unchanged from ST).

+ Framedata tweak: Jab version recovers 2f faster, Strong recovers 1f faster but stays active for 1f more (so the total duration is unchanged), Fierce stays active for +4f more.

REASON: Now the faster recovery in the Jab version (idea taken from HDR, but in HDR it was 4f) is fair against Dictator since the jab version covers less ground now. At first I left Strong as is and made Fierce have a 4f slower recovery, but the Fierce version was garbage versus projectiles. So now I'll be making it stay +4f active instead, so the frame_data/distance_traveled is still the same but it's now a little more usable vs projectiles. Strong version changed just to "blend" between versions. By the way, I am aware that the Jab version can feel too good now when playing online. The same happens in ST with Ryu's Short Tatsu, Boxer Headbutt/Rushes into grab, etc... These moves are OK offline but aren't really reactable online. So it's not really a problem of the move itself, it's just the nature of online play.

+ Damage/dizzy buff: from 26|26|26 to 26|28|30 (Jab|Strong|Fierce), dizzy changed from 0~4 to 7~13.

REASON: It makes more sense to have gradual damages. Also the Green Hand did mediocre dizzy. Now Zangief have a 3-hit dizzy combo vs Chun too, since the classic Fierce Crossup, Crouching Forward xx Lariat whiffs vs her; this is also fair on that match-up.

+ Priority buff: Strong and Fierce versions with no head hurtbox (like the Jab version).

REASON: At first I gave the Jab version head hurtboxes, since Green Hand isn't supposed to be an anti air and also for the sake of consistency(why only on Jab?), but then I found two problems: 1)It couldn't beat Claws Punch dive anymore, that move is already annoying on that match so this would be a considerable loss. It's true, Green Hand was never the definitive counter to it, but it kinda worked when timed right. 2)It made a difference when countering Akuma's Air Hadoukens. Both of these match-ups were trash, Zangief needs everything that he can get, so now I decided to revert the Jab version nerf and to give the same property on the Strong and Fierce versions.

+ Priority buff: body hurtbox during all startup frames as well as the 2nd active frame decreased 8px upwards and 2px forward.

REASON: the upwards priority change meaning is that if Zangief reads a Punch Dive by Claw a Green Hand will basically never lose the exchange, it may trade, but will never lose. Of course if it's a bad read Zangief is left open for a Flying Barcelona Attack, an Izuna Drop, or even worse, a Rolling Izuna Drop (super). The forward priority change is for Honda's Buttdrop rising part to not reach Zangief's hurtbox, allowing Zangief to win that exchange if it's a Short Buttdrop (it will also beat a Forward/Rh Buttdrop if it's a Fierce Green Hand, due to the very small priority buff which can be seen below). The reason for this change is just that if Zangief reads a Buttdrop from Honda then Zangief deserves to knockdown Honda.

+ Priority buff: Fierce version 2nd active part hitbox increased 4px upwards, Strong version increased 2px upwards, Jab version unchanged.

REASON: complimentary to the hurtbox buff above. This will allow a Fierce Green Hand to beat a Forward/Rh Buttslam. The change on the Strong version is just so it stays in between Fierce and Jab, but it's of less importance since it won't be enough to beat a Forward/Rh Buttslam. Anyway, this theoretically also helps vs Claw's Punch Dives and Akuma's Air Hadoukens, but in reality the Jab Green Hand is still better due to it being faster.

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ST NL
ST
6/12/22 (all)
NL
5/12/20 (LP)
NL
6/13/21 (MP)
NL
7/16/22 (HP)
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26|26|26 ➔ 26|28|30 0~4 ➔ 7~13
Super:

++ Behavior buff: same range as Rh suplex.

REASON: Zangief's super is rarely used because it has a mediocre range. By the way, his range is like that because of a bug/mistake from CAPCOM (it uses the same throw-box as N.Sim's noogie, which, on the list of throw-boxes, comes exactly after the unused throw-box which was intended for the super. The problem though is that that unused throw-box has SPD dimensions, which in turn would be too good. Suplex range makes more sense).

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ZANGIEF'S BAD MATCHUPS THAT NEEDED FIXING (and how I did it):

Guile:

There are 2 main changes to this match-up: New 3K lariat that can block Sonic Booms on the last frame and Standing Forward that can hit Guile's Crouching Forward recovery (!!!). Guile can now beat Zangief's Forward with his Crouching Strong though, just to keep things in check, otherwise I think Zangief would be able to spam this move with little risk. New Jab Green Hand helps, as well as the new hop, but they're harder to use, specially the hop. I have no idea how the match-up is now, I doubt it flipped to Zangief's advantage though. I'd guess it's around a 6-4 now for Guile still (i believe these changes are huge, they really help a lot on this heavily unfavored match-up), but maybe that's too optimistic?

Honda:

Lariats always beats Headbutts now, new Crouching Strong is good against HHS and to some extent Headbutts, these 2 changes solves the main match-up problems (Zangief can realistically bait Honda when ticking, i.e. is now a real mix-up(before Honda's Headbutt was always the right answer); has a decent counter to HHS that can also occasionally work against Headbutts). This is at least a 3.5-6.5 maybe even 4-6! Not perfect balanced but definitely it improved a lot.

Dhalsim:

New 3K lariat helps a lot in footsies (Sim's st.Fierce whiffs against it and can block Yoga Fires on 3K's last frame !!!). This alone makes the match-up considerably better. Theres also the new Jab Green Hand of course. I estimate it's around 4-6 now, which is surprisingly good, but maybe I'm too optimistic.

Chun:

She doesn't have the stored super bug anymore, this helps, it was very annoying to try to get in and also have to worry about that. Plus her Crouching Forward can be countered better with Standing Forward and her Crouching Rh whiffs against 3K Lariat, so she won't have so much advantage on footsies anymore. Also, her Rh Tenshou startup was nerfed by 1f so safe ticking her with Standing Short is a little less risky. Chun now bounces properly after a SPD on the corner so Zangief can tick her on that situation now. Finally, (and I know this wasn't really needed for balance) I made her throw recovery a little faster so a SPD right after it is not guaranteed anymore. Chun lost 90% of her BS so I think she deserved this. I guess it's around 4-6 now I believe.

Blanka:

It wasn't that bad in ST, but anyway, Blanka received considerable buffs, but none of them really affect the Zangief match-up that much. For example, the better recovery on Horizontal Rolls, which is Blanka's biggest buff, makes no difference here, since Zangief couldn't punish them on ST anyway. Even his new overhead isn't as good against Zangief due to how Zangief's crouching hurtboxes are. Also, Zangief's buffs don't affect this match-up that much, with exception of the new Crouching Strong, which can be useful here. Only a few things were done with this match-up in mind, like the nerf on Blanka's Neutral Jumping Forward and the tweaked recovery on Blanka's Super. I'm positive that this match-up is probably a little more balanced than it was on ST.

Fei:

3K lariats beats all rekka punches now (before it only beat the 1st punch) and Fei's Crouching Strong also whiffs against it so he has to use either Crouching Fierce, his improved Crouching Forward or his underrated Crouching Rh to beat it. Fei can't spam Crouching Fierce now since Zangief's Standing Forward beats it now from a very comfortable range. Fei may use his improved Crouching Forward instead, which is safer than Fierce, but it's still outranged by Zangief's Standing Forward and is also too vulnerable to Zangief's sweep. Fei's Crouching Strong tends to do OK vs Zangief's Standing Forward (on the right range it never loses, may only trade, but will be able to hit Zangief's startup very frequently), somewhat forcing Zangief to use some other move to counter it, which then will be vulnerable for a whiff punish Rekka combo. Fei can also trade with his Standing Fierce too, to dizzy-scare Zangief. Anyway, 3K lariat can now counter his super too, this is also fair. Chicken wing's priority was nerfed a little so it's a little easier to trade with it now by using Standing Rh. On the other hand, due to all buffs Zangief received, the neutral game tended to be fair (if not on Zangief's advantage, still have to test it better) so I had to nerf the after-SPD bounce that allowed Zangief to attempt a tick right after an SPD on mid screen (Zangief can still get close enough to tick vs Honda and Hawk though). It's probably around a 4-6 now I believe or maybe I'm too optimistic?

Cammy:

Her Crouching Forward was nerfed in a way that (basically) only Zangief's Standing Forward (and Hadoukens/Kikoukens as well - unintended impacts) can hit her from farther. This is needed because her Crouching Strong can now beat Zangief's Standing Forward. I believe this helps to keep this match-up the way it was at least, considering her buffs. The footsie game is now similar to Shoto match-ups now. Against her (now) safer Cannon Drills Zangief can use Crouching Strong to beat then cleanly now, with exception of Rh cannon drill, which will trade most of the time, in favor of Cammy (because of knockdown, not because of damage). So this creates a mix up situation: use Crouching Jab/Strong to beat cannon drills (if Short/Forward cannon drills) or just block and punish with SPD/lariat (if it's a Rh drill), since a Rh cannon drill will be unsafe if done with Short/Forward cannon drill spacing. Lastly, Zangief can now punish badly spaced Thrust Kicks with a Reversal Fierce Green Hand. So now Cammy won't be able to spam this move on Zangief's wakeup anymore, unless spaced far enough (it's not brainless anymore).

Claw:

Zangief already does OK on the footsie game, the problem was dealing with Claw's dives. So now Zangief's aerial punches are a little better, I guess you can use them vs dives, but it's still not worth the risk IMO. Claw's dive game is a considerably riskier now since a bad timed/spaced dive can be beat with either a Standing Rh (it used to trade in ST, now it can win) or a Well timed Sweep (it can KD claw now), but that's a mix-up that depends on Claw's spacing of his move. If Claw defaults to the ST pattern of always spacing the Dive so it always hit Zangief with the tip of the claw, then Zangief can use Standing Rh, if he tries to come from up to down to try to beat Standing Rh (Dive has better downwards priority than Rh) then Zangief can crouch (to make the Dive whiff) and then punish with a Sweep for a KD. Also, if Zangief is unsure, he can default to Crouching Fierce, that one seems to work on both situations but the outcome is kinda random (can win/trade/lose, depends too much on Claw's positioning). Finally, Claw now bounces properly after a SPD on the corner, allowing Zangief to safe jump or safe tick. I hope the match-up is fixed with this, but I'm not sure yet of the impacts on the dive changes.

O.Sagat:

Tiger Uppercuts now have 4f of startup(like it was on HF), making him safe jumpable and Fierce Green Hand works well at punishing blocked Jab Tiger Uppercuts if close enough. He is sill very good at zoning, but his dizzy potential on his tigers shots were reduced and SAC SPDs work a little better now since his pre-jump frames were nerfed (it was OP on ST), so it's a lot more fair now... I don't know how the match-up is now since a lot changed, but I am positive that it's way more manageable now!